Who would have thought that the tough, disciplined Coach John Pelphrey would be in charge of a basketball program seemingly out of control.
I follow Courtney Fortson on Twitter. When the September 7th tweet rolled across my iPhone screen, I had to do a double take. It didn’t seem possible that he would publish such a statement. But there it was.
Should Razorback athletes be held to a higher standard than the “regular” students? Pretty wild things happen at Greek houses at the U of A and on Dickson Street that don’t make the papers (but sometimes make Facebook). I know of alleged and investigated incidents not involving U of A athletes that never made the papers. Why do the students that play sports get singled out?
Just because the Razorback athletes wear the colors of the school and appear regularly before crowds of thousands in arenas and on TV representing the University, some think they should be held to a higher standard?
We must realize these are just college students, struggling like all other college students to get their degree. Sure, they get free tuition, books, a place to live, food, cool clothes and shoes — but that’s the least the University can do (or most, according to the NCAA) in exchange for the millions in revenue that are generated from college athletics and the many hours a week of training demanded from the athletes.
The fact the athletes represent the University does nothing to make women swoon or blogging fools like me follow them on Twitter and collect autographed jerseys. That #4 basketball jersey in size T4 on sale at the Razorback Shop has no more to do with Courtney Fortson than those #16 football jerseys had to do with Mitch Mustain a few years back…or the #21 jerseys have to do with Michael Smith today. Totally unrelated.
And even though I have that #5 football jersey autographed by Darren McFadden on my wall in a $250 frame filled with some weird preservative gas, the truth is anyone could have worn that number.
DMac plays for the Raiders now and Coach Broyles is out of sight, but I still tailgate in The Gardens. Razorback athletics are bigger and beyond one individual. Otherwise…why have a trademark licensing program?
Many years ago, Charles Barkley said, “I’m not a role model.” Over the years, he has many times behaved in a manner that has reinforced his point. Professional athletes are just in it for the money and the perks. The NCAA makes certain that student athletes are making progress towards and eventually completing their degree through the APR monitoring and reporting process.
Why can’t everyone realize that all these things going on are just a normal part of the process of growing into maturity that college students (including student athletes) go through?
John Pelphrey gets his money to coach and recruit student athletes. Why is it his problem when they act like wild and crazy college students? Coach Pelphrey should be measured by wins and losses, nothing else. Eligibility of students and their behavior on and off campus is not his problem.
Have we learned nothing from John Calipari? It’s whether you win or lose that counts…getting put on probation later doesn’t matter. The coach can’t be responsible for the whole basketball program — that’s what Athletic Directors are for.
Totally absurd.
Sorry, HogBlogger, but I have to disagree a little with you there. Kentucky will win big for the next few years, but they'll find out the cost of hiring Calipari before too long. Just look at his track record — ask Memphis and UMass. But then again, Cal's situations at Memphis and UMass compared to what the UA finds itself in now are really apples and oranges. Still, there is more to running a basketball program (or for any other sport for that matter) than just wins and losses. Or should I say, wins and losses on the court require discipline both on and off the court. If you can't keep your players eligible and on the team and out of trouble, performance on the court will naturally suffer as a result. You're right in that these are 18, 19, 20 year-old kids we're talking about, and I did my fair share of partying in my time on the hill back in the mid 90's. But even so, I think Coach Pel's got to start shouldering some of the blame for what's going on. He still needs time to turn things around, and I think he can do it. But he's got to try to keep his players in school and out of trouble if he has any hope of success.
Very nice…very nice indeed. It's not like the players involved were charged with a crime or anything. Fans need to relax and enjoy the upcoming season in which I boldly predict the Hogs will double their conference wins from last season to a SWEET total of 4.
Sell me your tickets.
What are you talking about? Where did I mention tickets in my comments?
I was just thinking with 4 wins, you might not want to bother going.
Well, you took a position; anything goes. I have to agree with Dessert Hog on one point, a lack of discipline will kill a basketball team and, this is no way to build one. You can see it on the court. That will relate well to your position as well.
Dudley Do-right talks a good game but does not deliver, at any level so far.
I do agree that these are college kids that will make huge mistakes in our ever more uninhibited society. There are more and more places where that is OK. I'm not sure I'm ready for Arkansas to be one of them. Once again, that is ultimately up to the fans.
Yes, these are college kids. College kids who have been working for a D-1 scholarship since they were 12 and making plans for Europe or the NBA. Public figures rely in part on their image to make that money. Ask Vick or Matt Jones. You tarnish the image, you pay a price. You tarnish it at 18 as an untested freshman and collect a nice big civil suit to keep you distracted for your career and you may have made a mistake with consequences.
We pay millions to manage this program. Some management beyond 'boys will be boys' may be required.
Is "anything goes" really the position I took? Gotta read real close…
Loved the "Dudley Do-right" comment.
Thanks for the perspective Hogblogger and, yes even Hawgfan100. I couldn't see any way to square this with Razorback athletics. I still don't but at least I think I understand the issue a bit better.
Let me say this about that; If the plan was to re-build quickly by worrying only about talent while having to deal with a few character issues then there is a huge flaw in that plan. Dudley Do-Right is not the guy to carry out that plan. You need a Billy Gillespie, John Calipari, or Houston Nutt to carry out that plan. Dudley can't stick to it. This is going to continue to be a revolving door under Pelphry if they keep this up.
I saw the repot where one of the players sent the girl a txt the next morning asking how she was doing. I think he may have liked her. At that point the player had no idea she felt the way she did. And accoding to the witnessess she liked him and the other player. I really think this has blown out of proportion. Now Fortson making his comment I don't get. I have read it 100 times and still dont get it really. I think he was saying he was being worked out at the gym (discipined) like he was one of the 3 guys. We now know he was not one of them. I think his comments are being misunderstood. But he should not have mentioned the incident in the first place.
The player probably had no idea she was going to get a lawyer that was going to talk about requesting a special prosecutor either.
It is the age old saying that one rotten apple (and I will say tends to spoil) spoils the whole barrell. At least it puts a bad aura over the other ones who are not involved. In the climate today in society and of course sports, I would not want to be a coach at most schools. For young people who are supposed to be interested in education and thus bettering themselves for the future, too often some come up short, and again the few commit acts that should be abhored in a civilized country. Unfortunately, the conduct that you get in sports is nothing other than mirrowing what is in our society at larg and frequently glamorized through much of the rotten entertainment media.
I think this whole thing speaks to the fact of where are society. I do have a problem with today's mentality "Everybody else does it so what;s the big deal" It is a big deal and bad behavior cannot be accepted at any level. Why were they even there to bigin with. Because it is accepted behavior on college campuses. Which should not be accepted behavior on any level. My gosh folks where are we headed when we can make lame excuses for this type of incident. It doen't matter to me if it was rape or consentual sex it's wrong behavior plain and simple. This is not the behavior I want for my son or daughter. To say that, "we all sow are wild oats" is to sell short our kids. Not only do the kids need to mature but so do some parents.
Is this worthy of these three being kicked out of school? Not if there are not charges filed later but some form of punishement is in line though. We are seeing this type of stuff all around the country. Why not hold our kids to a higher standard. Hogblogger I respectfully disagree with your whole blogg. I would hope in the future you would think more about what you are saying in moral matters such as this. You so a great job blogging on the raxorbacks but this one I think you got it wrong.
Any of you guys ever heard of sarcasm? Re-read Hogblogger's piece.
MM and other members of the 'Morals Police',
Chill out. The fact that you have a problem with this behavior is irrelevant. What was 'bad' about the behavior in the first place? Thus far no rape has been determined to have occurred. It bothers you that several consenting adults had sex with each other at the same time? Too bad. It's their choice to do so and none of your business. I'm not even sure I agree with the idea that punishments are warranted. I mean, I know some sop will have to be proffered to placate the wringers, bunchers, and clenchers but I'm pretty sure its wrong to do so. That definitely sends the wrong message.
And lay off Pelphrey. Unless you truly believe that he encourages his players to indulge in rape and/or other wild-ass behavior, he's done nothing to deserve all this "His ass is on the line too." talk. I'm confident he would have done at least what I would have done and urged these young men to think about their choices and exercise good judgement. Much beyond that, what's he going to do? Follow them to every frat party and bar? At some point, these youngsters are going to have to be left to their own devises, to learn their own lessons. To do their own 'character building' by dealing with the consequences of the 'wrong' choices they make. Isn't part of Pel's job to be there when the do to help them sort everything out? I'm very sure it's not to be the scapegoat for every perceived shortcoming of the program.
So what should be done, if anything? I don't know. It's not my place to say anyway, and, outside of a few select individuals on the Hill, it's no one else's place either.
If the head coach/athletic dept. are going to punish these players for the sexual acts they commited, then the university should punish the girl as well. What about the rest of the students who commit these so-called crimes at frat parties? Let's make sure we don't just punish the ones wearing a uniform. They all represent the same school our tax dollars go to.
To just punish the basketball players would be like saying I can have sex any which way I want to, but they can't.
Yeah, right. Now that's sending out the right message we want our young people to here.
Hogblogger, I kept looking for your sarcasm but didn't seem to find it. I hope I missed it.
I can't believe what I am reading here – despite what 'should be', these kids – like it or not – are role models to kids, and it's critical for those athletes to understand that. Just ask Tim Tebow (he's on the other extreme, but it makes my point).
I don't think athletes SHOULD be role models, but it's not what I think. If any of you have kids, didn't they want to have DMac's number on their football team, watch all the Youtube videos, and emulate his moves? And to say the number has nothing to do with the player is a really dumb statement….why do you think the marketing folks put those numbers in stores as opposed to 99, 43, 67, etc? Did DMac and Felix jerseys sell out? Why do you think that is, it's associated with the player…sheesh.
Some of you may not know this, but when a player is recruited the coaches spend a lot of time talking about how they are held to a higher standard and need to watch their p's and q's cause they are under a microscope. Athletes need to take responsibility for this and hold themselves more accountable. 90% of student athletes are successful at this, but there are a number that either fail all together or have episodes of bad judgement. Of course the media contributes to blowing things out of proportion, especially in today's environment of instant information.
To cry about things 'not being fair' is not valid. These kids know what they are getting into (as far as higher standards) during the recruiting process. The players AND coach should be held accountable – the coach for helping develop the kids and facilitating an acceptable environment. When episodes like this happen, hopefully the kids AND coach learn from it and improve.
I should also point out that in most cases the athletes get special treatment, particularly in the pros. I still can't believe Stallworth only got a month in jail for killing someone under the influence, when normal citizens get 20 years for manslaughter. Quit making excuses for these kids and help them develop accountability for their actions.
Here's the most obvious case of sarcasm:
"And even though I have that #5 football jersey autographed by Darren McFadden on my wall in a $250 frame filled with some weird preservative gas, the truth is anyone could have worn that number."
The reason why he has that jersey on his wall has everything to do with who wore it. Anyone could have worn that jeresy, but anyone didn't. Number 5 belonged to the greatest AR running back to ever wear a jersey.
People didn't buy the #16 jersey because that was their favorite number. It had to do with the fact the kid wearing it was the #1 parade all american HS quaterback.
Amen, I Like Pigs! The sarcasm was pretty obvious in my mind. Anyone who has followed the Razorbloggers for a while should know they all favor discipline and accountability and not some wild west lawlesness like the OUs and Miami's of the 80's.
"I can’t believe what I am reading here – despite what ’should be’, these kids – like it or not – are role models to kids,…"
Or, they can choose to be like Barkley and take the position they aren't role models. Period. It's important to understand the 'role model' thing isn't a requirement.
Jerseys of famous/great players are put out there not because those players are great role models but because they sell. Period. Reggie Fish could very well be a great role model (I don't know but I don't hear much negative news about him…). Howeve, I'll bet you won't find many of his jersey number in the stores.
"Some of you may not know this, but…"
And some of us do but none of what you wrote addresses the fact that these kids can and will choose to not do what's in their own best interest, let alone that of the institution they belong to.
"The players AND coach should be held accountable –"
I have a problem with that 'AND' section. If you have a kid who's not interested or simply chooses to do what he wants regardless, then not only do you have a player whose career is potentially ruined but that of the coach you piggy-backed to that player as well. That is completely unreasonable. Now if you can prove the coach willfully neglected his duties in this area…that'd be another story. I don't think that's the case here.
"Quit making excuses for these kids and help them develop accountability for their actions."
Not making excuses; none are needed. That seems to be the particular disconnect on this issue: some posters believe 'something wrong' was done and others don't see it that way.
I don't think u get it. A role model isn't defined by the individual being admired it's defined by the person doing the admiring. In other words Barkley may not think he's a role model, but he is a role model for some kids that looked at him that way.
I believe Barkley's point was: "That's their problem."
I like Pigs and Little R get the prize for actually understanding the blog post. Sorry I made it too complicated for some.
Yes, the number 5 jersey has everything to do with who wore it. The 4T jersey in the Razorback store has everything to do with Cortney Fortson – that's his number. While Razorback sports is bigger than the players, it is also about the players. And the players are about…
The reference to the trademark program as well as the reference to the "many millions in revenue" are to say that money will ultimately be the deciding factor in all decisions, not any sense of right and wrong. See CBahn's friday article for confirmation of this.
The reference to John Calipari should be obvious. He's had two National Championships taken away from him yet is one of the highest paid coaches in the country at what, in their own mind at least, is regarded as one of the top programs in the country. Yet, he wasn't responsible for what was going on in his programs that led to the probation. Really? What is the basketball coach responsible for if not the program? The coach is responsible for the players. Bear Bryant suspended Joe Namath for the rest of his junior season and the Sugar Bowl because Joe admitted he took a drink at a party.
Do wins and losses come before integrity, conduct and character? Are, as CBahn's article infers, players taking advantage of the fact that U of A basketball is in a huge jam due to APR (you guys missed that reference totally by the way) and deciding that they can't be punished for misbehavior?
College athletics has a way of talking out of all sides of it's mouth. It's not about the money, it's about the kids. It's not about wins and losses, it's about developing character. It's about the fans, who want wins and a program they can be proud of. It's about money and NCAA licensing deals and TV contracts. It's about selling jerseys with players numbers on them.
The final line of the post was "totally absurd." That's because this entire situation on basketball is totally absurd. Our program is not in good shape. This one incident is just another in a long line of signals.
I was appalled by Fortson's twitter post. I know he was trying to talk about how hard he had been working out, but the allusion he made spoke volumes to me. I've heard the details of what happened through sources. I have ways of getting way close to what's going on.
This, like the other problems with the basketball program, will get smoothed over because that's supposedly the better money right now. The only thing that will cause change and improvement will be an empty Bud Walton arena.
Not only was the post sarcasm. It was also cynical.
Sorry I made it so difficult to interpret. I just think it's more fun that way.
So was Lou Holtz's progam in trouble here after his players got in trouble for something similar? What happened after that incident?
They started winning and Roland Sales is forever famous for the suspensions. Everybody forgot about it. He took some chances on some players he shouldn't have in hindsight.
What was dismal from the point Nolan got fired. Who left when he got fired? Is one of them playing in the NBA? Recruiting has stunk since then. Did Nolan or Eddie ever take chances on players they shouldn't have? William Mills? Ron Huery? Because of their winning ways did people cut them some slack?
It is all about winning. Your preacher not bringing in enough members even though he lives his life in an exemplary manner, get a new one. Membership is important. Is it the money is it the pride?
People don't show up when you don't win. Your program dies when you don't win.
I think all Razorback athletics needs an enforced curfew. Not a bed check, but rather, if you get in any trouble after midnight, you get punished. Consider McFadden, Mallett and these "frat dancers". All this stuff happens later in the evening. I know this is not popular amongst youth, but nothing good happens after 11 PM, much less midnight.
And you expect recruiting to get better?
My three teenage sons don't aspire to be like athletes. They know most are hung up on themselves because all of us are watching them. We go to the games because we like basketball or football. A certain percentage of these kids are going to make mistakes. You gonna hold all of them to some moral standard? You can punish them for breaking the law or some team rule. You gonna make the bible the rule book for the team? Have fun recruiting. We could make this more discreet by bringing in prostitutes on Saturday's after the games and that way they would never stray down frat row. You are all acting like this hasn't happened before. If John is winning, nobody is even talking about this or if they are nobody is listening. I'm more pissed about the sucky schedule till Texas in Basketball.
Here's the point some people just don't get. The laws that we abide by don't hold us as a society to a higher standard, so why is it that we somehow believe our children should know how to conduct themselves in that manner?
Aren't we, as adults, the ones leading by example in how we conduct ourselves as parents in our everyday lives, what the media produces on the television set for our children the watch, what we have decided is important or not important as a society?
If you look to the top of the chain, our government, our laws and our media do or show absolutely nothing to resolve the problems we live with on a daily basis.
How in the world can we be so ignorrant as to believe these kids should be held to higher standard than what we're teaching them?