Third Time’s A Charm For Lee?

29 Responses to “Third Time’s A Charm For Lee?”

1. HankHog on July 9th, 2007 7:45 am

   Well put “Sunshine”. Unfortunately facts are not something that people want to deal in these days. However, in the end the facts will win. We will not improve significantly in the passing game, as we have been promised, and we my not improve at all. It is all smoke and mirrors, make the fans believe something while we do something else. That is pretty typical from a “sorry individual” coach.
2. BACONBITS on July 9th, 2007 8:57 am

   Here we go again!!!! Let’s wait until the season starts b4 we start this crap again. Let’s say 3 games. Troy, Alabama, and then Kentucky. If we are not 5 - 0 by the time we play Auburn and/or we still can’t throw it 5 feet accurately, then I like the rest of the fans will be quite and let you guys get out the pitch forks!
3. HogBlogger on July 9th, 2007 9:35 am

   BACONBITS - Crap? Pitchforks? Stats and a historical perspective hardly equates to ‘pitchforks’. If David Lee was going to be an outstanding coach and a quality offensive coordinator it would have happened by now. He’s a journeyman coach, spent most of his time in option oriented offenses, and has had the pleasure of observing an NFL offense from a position of absolutely no responsibility beyond serving as occasional tutor for the third string quarterback.

   The fact that in the last 23 years he has only been hired by three people, all strongly associated with the University of Arkansas, pretty much tells you the story of the David Lee coaching career.

   Expect more stats and analysis / commentary from the RazorBloggers crew as we approach the new season. I think it is going to be quite interesting.
4. HogBaller on July 9th, 2007 10:03 am

   Very well researched and well said Walking on Sunshine…or should I call you “Walking on Hot Coals”?

   Most of the fans that are clamoring for this to just end and for folks to “shut up” about it til’ the season starts, don’t want to face the reality that McFadden’s Heisman chances are tied closely to wins and losses.

   A one-dimensional offense does not have a high probability of producing the number of wins McFadden will need (9+ IMO), along with his rushing yards for that coveted trophy most fans are expecting this season.

   I think fans expecting a repeat or improvement of last season’s performance are being very optimistic given all the changes to the program during the off-season.
5. BlindHog on July 9th, 2007 10:07 am

   Well, Exactly.

   Why Houston wants to even pretend he is interested in a passing game is beyond me. He is clearly trying to build the next Nebraska. The QB is only for handing off. Maybe after Frank is gone we can join the 19th century and develop a balance offense.
6. BlindHog on July 9th, 2007 10:56 am

   And, if you look at Houston’s career, it really makes sense. He was at Okie State when they were getting run over by OU and Nebraska. At that time, it must have seemed like the most powerful offense in the world.

   That’s what got Kenny. It will get Houston too, sooner or later. Arkansas fans want a passing game.
7. Dan on July 9th, 2007 10:59 am

   Most of the fans that are clamoring for this to just end and for folks to “shut up” about it til’ the season starts, don’t want to face the reality that McFadden’s Heisman chances are tied closely to wins and losses.

   I do face the reality the his close chances ARE tied to the wins and losses, but I do what this “drama” to end. Why focus on the crap of last years post season and start a regrouping/ rebuilding effort to support our Hogs. How would you feel as a player to know your fans think you’re not going to amount to anything? I for one would love the support, but also strive harder to be better than people think.

   I do agree that the one-dimensional offense is a no-winner. Passing now, at least marginally, is a must to pull out enough wins.

   Honestly, what do we want more as fans, if you had to pick one or the other, a Heisman winner or an SEC champion team? Easy choice: SEC champion team. As Darren himself said:

   We have to win as a team first and then the rewards come with the winning.

   HogBlogger: Very good historical look at Lee’s “stats”. I would like to see more stats for sure. Were are you getting the data? It add that “extra touch” of credibility if you added your source(s).
8. Walking on Sunshine on July 9th, 2007 11:11 am

   Dan, the David Lee stats were compiled from the New Mexico, Rice, Arkansas, and UTEP media guides. Those can be found on those respective schools athletic web sites. Thanks.

   Sunshine
9. HogBaller on July 9th, 2007 11:19 am

   I don’t think I said anything about “players not amounting to anything.” I was highlighting the FACT that most fans want the drama to go away ONLY because it gets in the way of them daydreaming about Hesiman trophies and a championship season.

   Yet, if we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot as this staff and administration has a knack for doing, we will watch another class of talented players come and go, never fully realizing their potential. As a player, I would be more concerned about that than fan support.

   Don’t believe me…take a look back on the 2003 season for an example of what I’m talking about.
10. Hawgfan100 on July 9th, 2007 11:27 am

    “He is clearly trying to build the next Nebraska.”

    I was struck by this comment on a couple of levels:

    1). The obvious derogatory tone of the comment, like its somehow not good enough to emulate this powerhouse program.

    2). This IS a powerhouse program!
    Some stats (courtesy of the College Football Data Warehouse cfbdatawarehouse.com):

    Overall record: 812-326-41

    48 championship years (including 4 National Titles), most recent championship: 2006 division title

    Bowl Record 22-22 (I know: hardly outstanding, until you compare it to Arkansas’ record)

    All-Time ranking versus other Div.-I schools: 8th (Arkansas’ ranking is 26th. It helps that the creator of the site gives the Hogs points for the National Championship in ‘64).

    Yeah, I know the point was that UA can’t expect to be successful with an unbalanced offense. I agree, but you need to use a different example of the program ‘not to emulate’!
11. Dan on July 9th, 2007 12:06 pm

    HogBaller:

    I know you didn’t say anything about players not amounting to anything. I was using that as a reason for forgetting the drama. I think we should forget it… it just seems like fans trying to establish a place that they don’t belong. My point is, fans should be fans, and yes we can be upset that we’ve “never” amounted to anything great as Razorbacks. But we should keep our fandom to sites like this and not try and be take cheap shots at our head coach or create so much controversy that our team suffers because of it.

    I agree, and do believe you, that it does seem we shoot ourselves in the foot more often than I’d like to admit. Definitely remember the last three plays of LSU, I believe, that we tried to pass all of them when clearly we should have D-Mac’ed it to get the first down! It is very frustrating.

    This is Casey’s season to break out to get the hogs rolling with Darren and Felix in the backfield.
12. scruf on July 9th, 2007 3:28 pm

    David Lee’s combined record at UTEP was lousy to say the least, but during his time as HC the Miners had several top 10 moments in the PASSING game that still stand in the UTEP record books. The skinny:

    1989
    221 COMP. - 6th single season
    425 ATT. - 5th single season
    23 TDs - T-5th single season
    249 YD/GM - 8th single season
    28 COMP vs BYU - T-7th single game
    434 YD vs BYU - 7th single game
    861 TP - 436 rush/425 pass - 6th single season

    1990
    32 COMP vs Air Force - T-3rd single game

    1991
    4,286 TY - 2110 rush/2176 pass - 10th single season

    The passing game under David Lee at UTEP:

    1989
    249YPG,23TD,13INT,35ATT/GM
    1990
    211YPG,13TD,10INT,35ATT/GM
    1991
    181YPG,08TD,12INT,25ATT/GM
    1992
    174YPG,10TD,04INT,28ATT/GM
    1993 (7 GAMES)
    164YPG,09TD,07INT,25ATT/GM

    It’s true that these numbers aren’t spectacular, especially when combined with his dismal winning percentage (or stunning loss percentage) but David Lee has seen the ball fly through the air 51 times as a HC on the sidelines. The passing game isn’t as foreign to him as the original post would suggest. If we put the ball in the air only 25 times a game and complete 15, the opposing defenses would stay honest, opening lanes for our ace backfield. Whether of not Casey Dick is the quarterback to execute the plan is probably the bigger question going into the season. Also, this is not the wishbone, we WILL throw the ball. GO HOGS!
13. TipsterHog on July 9th, 2007 4:28 pm

    Good info, scruf…thanks for bringing it to the blog.

    Now if we could only play BYU and Air Force a little more…
14. scruf on July 9th, 2007 5:53 pm

    I’ll trade AF for Chatt. straight up.
15. BlindHog on July 10th, 2007 12:14 pm

    Hawgfan,

    I share your admiration for Nebraska. I will not waste your time with all the ways Arkansas 2007 in the SEC cannot become Nebraska 1990 in the Big 8. Hell, Nebraska doesn’t even want to be Nebraska anymore. What does that tell you? OU is not running the wishbone anymore either.

    My frustration, strangely enough for Dale, is that I believe Dale’s one real success in ten years is to prove that Arkansas can be a force in the SEC. With his poor efforts he has been in position enough times to actually take the step to the next level. He just can’t get there with his recruiting and coaching.

    Danny Ford proved you can recruit to Arkansas. Matt, Shawn, and Darren amoung others have proved that we are in an era where Arkansas can provide some truly excellent home grown talent. Joe Ferguson and Fitz Hill proved that you can build a balanced offense here. Now we need to find a real coach and make the move.

    Having said all of that, I will still give Lee the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise. I just think that the facts and the circumstances are both stacked against him.
16. Bluffhawg on July 10th, 2007 3:46 pm

    If David Lee is such a bust at coaching, it leaves me to wonder why Bill Parcells would put him on his staff. I don’t recall Parcells (a NFL legend) hiring a coach just because he is a nice guy.
17. BlindHog on July 10th, 2007 6:59 pm

    I don’t remember Lee and Parcells in the Superbowl. Did they blow a couple of wildcards? Not that Lee was in charge of anything.
18. GonzoHog on July 11th, 2007 5:02 am

    If we’re going to go by the UTEP stats, then they are definately stacked against David Lee and probably just about any other coach who has had the mis-fortune of coaching down there. When has there ever been any abundance of talent at UTEP? As far as his connections in coaching goes, the fact that all of his hires have been strong Arkansas ties has little to do with anything. Most coaches on the the div.1 level have done pretty much the same. As coaches learn and move on, they look for the break that puts them into a position to excel. David Lee’s knowledge has never quite been untapped yet. He has never been in a position yet that has provided the talent that he has to work with now. Don’t get me wrong, David Lee has plenty to prove, but the thing I believe most hog fans want to know is just how much of the reigns is Nutt really going to turn over to Lee, concerning the offense? He hasn’t fully let go as of yet, and I truly don’t believe he’ll do it this year either.
19. BlindHog on July 11th, 2007 8:36 am

    Exactly Gonzo, that really is the issue. The practiced a lot of Gus’ offense last spring, ran a little one game, and then straight back to the running game.

    He hired Lee because he knew he had a good yes man and QB coach who liked the running game.

    We’ll all see soon enough.
20. Bluffhawg on July 11th, 2007 9:35 am

    Blindhog, I believe many teams (all but one)face the same situation year in and year out that Parcells faced in Dallas, a disapointing ending. But he did recognize talent and by all accounts, according to ESPN & the NFL channel, left Dallas in excellent shape in the talent department. The fact still remains that Bill Parcells is a Hall of Fame coach, will be inducted (probably his first available date), consistantly surrounded himself with top notch assistants (David Lee is in that group)and has a very keen eye for talent. You can take jabs at them all you want, but I do believe they coached in the NFL and your posting on a local website. I’ll take his ability to evaluate talent over yours anyday!!
21. 10KHog on July 11th, 2007 10:33 am

    Local website? What? This thing is called the “World Wide Web”…
22. HogBaller on July 11th, 2007 11:40 am

    I believe someone has a man crush for Bill Parcells…..hmmm.
23. BelAirHawg on July 11th, 2007 12:02 pm

    It seems to me like Parcells got the addition of Lee in the same way he got Terrell Owens; a Jerry Jones hire. Stats don’ lie, it’s not a difficult concept. The guy is best suited for the film room (Where Parcells a “NFL legend” had him), not the sidelines (Where Dale has him). I’m just happy Nutt, Lee etc can make bank by never actually beating a quality opponent. Kind of gives hope to the world.
24. Bluffhawg on July 11th, 2007 1:47 pm

    Having a crush on another man or always thinking everything is a conspiracy is not the way think (unlike others on this site). Parcells never let anyone force anything on him without reaction. Case in point, he resigned after last year. You can be assured that the Terrell Owens incident had much to do with that decision, unlike when “HE” hired David Lee.

    P.S. I consider winning the western division of the SEC as beating quality opponents.
25. Dan on July 11th, 2007 3:04 pm

    It does SEEM true that maybe the reason David Lee actually was hired because of the Frank Broyles to Jerry Jones connection, but who doesn’t believe in the old saying “It’s all in who you know.”? To me, being a coach (whether assistant or head) on the NFL level is at least a step up from the college level.

    If David Lee has great film skills, what’s not to say he can’t apply that on the field?

    I think Bluffhawg is right to some degree, not everything is a conspiracy (which many Hog fans have tended to believe throughout this past season/post season).
26. GonzoHog on July 11th, 2007 4:30 pm

    I do believe we have the type of players, with thier versatility, to open up the offense. If David Lee is allowed to open up the play-book a little longer than Gus was able to, we could see a big change for the better. I don’t believe Casey or Mitch was ready for the prime time last year, and Hillis going down for the last 4 games almost destroyed our offense. We pretty much relied on our O-line, D-Mac, and FJ in those last games. I’ll give credit to Houston in that regard as far as sticking to the run, since it’s pretty much all we had with Monk being double teamed by very good defenses. Two inexsperianced QB’s throwing into double coverages is not a good combination. Hopefully, Casey is ready to step up this year with a good spring and summer behind him. Cleveland is back at 250 lbs. this year. Crawford is back at full speed, with a good spring behind him, and Hillis is in the best shape of his life. The recipe is in place, now let’s see if David Lee gets his chance to cook.
27. Bluffhawg on July 12th, 2007 12:30 pm

    Gonzohog, Another key ingredient in that recipe is our recievers ability to read and break off routes. According to most, including Gus, we could no do that at all last year (except Marcus Monk). I agree that things are in place for a exciting season, as long as our D-Backs & O-Line step up, and I’m ready for them to roll the ball out and play some Football.
28. GonzoHog on July 13th, 2007 5:15 am

    I have no clue what kind of reciever coach Gus Malzahn was, but from some of the reports I’ve heard, they were doing much better in the spring under the supervision of last years QB coach. London Crawford seemed to be the most improved, and slightly ahead of Robert Johnson coming out of the spring. Nutt tabbed them as co-starters at that time. Crawford’s speed is a little better at going for the long ball, and has shown he has a pretty good set of hands. I know absolutely nothing about Marques Wade, but I here he has a lot of potential, which is basically what you here about all of our recievers. Ben Cleveland is back at about 15 lbs. hevier than last year. I believe he will eventually take over that spot at TE, if his blocking becomes better. I also believe that D-mac and FJ will be on the field at the same time with Hillis, in a lot our passing situations, with Hillis and FJ lining up at TE and slot back positions, with Monk and Crawford at the reciever spots. They may also Flip-flop FJ with D-Mac from time to time. The hardest part for Casey will be to keep up with all of the options he has available this year.
29. Bluffhawg on July 13th, 2007 8:42 am

    Sounds like a recipe for success to me!!

    Go Hogs!!!