Deflation
March 1, 2010 at 7:35am by TipsterHog
Filed under Arkansas Razorbacks, Basketball
Last week was obviously not a good one on the court for Razorback basketball. It was also a bad week off the court, as well.
In announcing ticket prices for the 2010-11 season, no increase was announced for Razorback basketball games. But wait…that’s good news, right? Well…yes…and no. In this tough economy, certainly no one wants to see prices go up.
But everyone knows the real reason for the pricing stability: there was no way most Hog fans were going to pay more than they do currently to attend a Razorback basketball game. Especially when they’re hardly getting their money’s worth today.
It’s called deflation. An economist would define that term as “a decrease in the general price level of goods and services.” In the case of Razorback basketball, the word has several different meanings.
Deflation…as in…the air leaking out of the basketball. Under Stan Heath and John Pelphrey, the Razorback program has completely lost its identity on the court. What once was a pressing, trapping, fast-paced style — Hawg Ball — has devolved over the years into a jumbled mess.
What fans see today on offense (that is, when there’s an attempt to actually run an offense) is typically an NBA-style where one player tries to make a one-on-one move while everyone else clears out and watches. That player either scores, passes to someone to bail himself out, or turns the ball over.
What fans see today on defense…well, overall, we really don’t see much defense from the Hogs anymore. Certainly not anything close to the standards of defense that the teams of the 1990’s established.
Poor conditioning (especially by past standards) and bad defensive execution have typically translated into a good scoring day for the opposing team. Certainly there’s rarely an attempt to press or trap in the backcourt even when the full compliment of players has been available to the coach.
Deflation…as in…the overall value of the program. Since Arkansas last won the SEC West in 1995, Mississippi State has won or tied for the division six times. Ole Miss and LSU…four times. Alabama and Auburn have won the West outright at least once, as well.
Because of the 1994 National Championship, Hog fans have wanted to believe their team was one of the marquee programs of the SEC. Fifteen years of not even winning a division title says otherwise.
Deflation…as in…the disappointment and apathy of much of the fan base. The confidence that Bobby Petrino and Dave Van Horn have given fans in football and baseball, respectively, hasn’t materialized for the basketball program since Nolan Richardson was fired.
In the eight seasons of Stan Heath and John Pelphrey, rarely has an offseason held the promise of a preseason top 25 ranking or realistic NCAA tournament chances. And when it did, those hopes were hastily dashed by early losses to subpar teams.
This is the “State of the Hogs” in basketball and Athletic Director Jeff Long knows it all too well. His ability to break this deflationary spiral and turn around a revenue generating sport may well define his tenure on The Hill.
In the meantime, Hog fans are left to decide whether the level of play on the court is worth paying the price of admission. Even when that price remains unchanged.
Looks like you found the problem in your next to last paragraph… it’s Jeff Long. Isn’t it a time to do a complete review of his tenure? What has he done that has worked/not worked?
In my book, he’s failed (ticket price & ribbon boards) more than he’s succeed (Petrino).
Let’s not forget that Jeff has increased football ticket prices by more than 57% in what… just over 2 years?
Should be interesting to see how this impacts ticket sells this year.
Would the football tickets be up 57% if BWA was full?
Probably not… (unless they really just wanted some cash reserves). Personally, I think they are feeding off of the lack of funds in basketball but more importantly the potential interest in how the Hogs ware expected to do next year.
Amen on the ribbon boards!!! I absolutely hate them, hate them, hate them!!!!
You said a mouthful there Tipster.
Long was the last act of the Broyles/White era; the period that gave us Houston Nutt over Tommy Tuberville, Stan Heath over Bill Self and, of course, pulled poor Opie out of the hat after running Altman back to Crieghton. Yes, he stumbled into Petrino and, he sticks those advertising boards everywhere. But, this is his first actual hiring test as an AD. He didn’t build much confidence with the bunch he looked at before Petrino. But, he got lucky once, maybe he can do it again.
It would be interesting to know what kind of progress he is making cleaning up the incestous athletic department as well. That would speak volumes about how much real power he has within the system. Frank loved to talk about Arkansas athletics having it’s own state, being the only game in town. But, of course that has a down side as well. 50 years of in-breeding, sweetheart insider deals, and control of the media, have left a less professional management system in place. Long may not have much to say.
One thing is for sure. They have tried to do this on the cheap and maintain more control over the program than a good coach will accept.
I like Mike.
But, I was very impressed with Vandy. That is more of an old Eddie kind of system, but at least it is a system. And, it works. We couldn’t get Pearl from Tenn or Billy the kid from Florida but we might get Stallings from Vandy.
I do agree with Soup and others that we can’t look like the goofiest fan base in America and help the program. But, of course that cuts both ways. You have to put a team on the floor. Fans won’t stand by and watch the kind of effort and coaching that we have endured without complaining. We are the ones buying the tickets and the merchandise and watching on TV. The fans are a big part of the program too.
GolfHog
Frank wanted Self and John White vetoed it. Self was ready to come. Self was the wrong color to protect Arkansas from the potential Nolan lawsuit in White’s (pardon the unavoidable pun) view.
Broyles’ bigger issue was his direct reports getting Nolan’s team put on probation. Nolan couldn’t forgive Frank for that when Frank wouldn’t take ownership of that and publicly support Nolan like Nolan wanted (whatever that was).
The probation issue is what led to the downturn in Razorback bball and the Nolan-Broyles hard feelings. The probation issue should have led to Broyles stepping down and this whole basketball mess and probably the football mess being avoided. White tried to force that and Nolan’s “white haired devil” stayed in power. White spent the remainder of his tenure trying to prove that Broyles hadn’t put castration bands on him by meddling in the basketball and football situations.
For quite a while now Razorback basketball’s priorities have been everything but putting a team on the floor that can compete at the national level. I don’t see that changing anytime soon with the APR staring us in the face.
Owasso,
I share the same concerns you do about this seasons increased ticket prices.
It’s still a guessing game how that might turn out.
I do realize Jeff Long has to juggle between knowing the econemy is down, with also knowing the high expectations of the football team this season.
It’s really hard not to majorly increase those prices and stay competitive for the future in the SEC.
Hog fans love having Bobby Petrino for their new head coach. They also have to realize if they’re going to keep him, they have to keep him compensated for his tireless efforts in evaluating recruits, signing recruits, creating new in-state as well as out-of-state program relationships, and of course coaching a pro-style offense we’ve never seen here before at the UofA.
I will say this. We’re (fans) getting exactly what we were starving for under HDN. We wanted to take the next step, so here we are.
Unfortunately, the “little man” is being weeded out, while the middle income fans will begin to struggle with prices.
Personally, I think we could do without the majority of those high dollar, lounging, cocktail drinking, pat the waitress on the ass tickets. Are those people really football fans? Do they even call the Hogs? Give me a break!
Give me a break!
My main problem (besides the “down” economy) is that we still don’t aren’t selling out the stadium. Just wondering if this will extend the situation. As I recalled, my gut told me that the first $10/ticket from Jeff was to paid off Houston (or Bobby’s new salary – either way, related). I was “willing” to let that slide but come on… 57% – REALLY! Shame on you – Jeff Long!
Unfortunately the high dollar seats are purchased by the folks that provide 75-80% of the donations to the Foundation. It makes business sense to cater to those folks.
I’m not estatic about my season tickets going up, but it was inevitable. Arkansas used to have the finest facilities in the SEC, but other schools have surpassed us and other smaller SEC schools are catching up quickly. If we want to continue to draw key talent and coaches, we’ve gotta pony up some bucks.
Folks seem to think about Petrino’s salary first. The ticket hikes go to support all sports, including our fine track and baseball programs. It doesn’t all go to Petrino’s pockets fellas, or HDN for that matter.
I’m willing to put money on the fact that the Hogs will sell out every game next year. We have the top QB in the nation, an exciting brand of football, and if Willy can improve our defense this could be a special year. Folks will pony up a few extra bucks to see this product. From a business perspective, it’s the perfect time to announce an increase.
My biggest disappointment is the Little Rock surcharge. With the exception of LSU every other year, the quality of opponents in LR is terrible. If it were the Floridas, Auburn, Bama, etc it would be a little easier. But it won’t stop me from shelling out the bucks to see these Hogs.
Funny how we see things differently… if you go back and run the numbers, guess how much additional revenue was generated from the last $10/ticket increase…….. waiting…….waiting…….waiting………
Bingo, almost EXACTLY the amount of Bobby’s contract!
As for the “surcharge” in Little Rock, I’m totally FOR this and would have love to see this before now. Why? Personally, I’d move all of the games to Fayetteville (as they should be)… or charge the difference in lost revenue. Well, they are finally charging more but it doesn’t appear that the program will get to keep the difference.
Why would you want all the games in Fayetteville? Half our fan base is in LR, and the games are great for the fans and the players?
Again, look at this as a business….if games aren’t played in LR, donations may be down – which would be much more than the ‘lost’ revenue.
Why would I want all of the games in Fayetteville? Ummmm, cause that’s where the school is located! Or because we can house 75,000+ fans vs. 55,000+!
As for looking at this as a business, I realize that it is but aren’t we losing the focus of what college is supposed to be about?
Little Rock games are critical to feed boosters and to keep the state aligned to focus on the University. Sure there are more seats, but from what I understand WM may be upgraded to 70K over the next 10 years
.
Your last comment is curious – college is about providing an opportunity for a higher education for students, at a significant cost (tuition aint cheap). In order to do that, the college has to provide competitive curriculi, teachers, buildings, extracurriculars, and athletics. All of that costs a lot of money. Tuition doesn’t cover those costs, so a university must rely on donations and revenue. So if college is about all of that, then the focus of having a college is about being able to be financially viable – which points to ‘business’.
Gonzo – we had a pro-styled offense from 1968 through most of 1972. Montgomery/Dicus and Ferguson/Reppond era. Petrino’s is a tad bit more advanced of coure.
I agree with your points. I don’t really have any problem with the ticket price increases. I fully expected them. I expect the Foundation to command more money to maintain existing seating positions within the next couple of years as well.
Big time means big bucks. Have to be careful what we ask for…we might get it.
Wow. It is really worse than I thought. “The Overall Value” paragraph really hit me where it hurts. That is just heart breaking.
I know I keep bringing up Mike, and most of you are sick of it, but give me a better solution. Here is my argument. Mike knows “Hawg Ball”. Everybody in the state of Arkansas knows that Mike would bring that hustle – that scrappiness, that hunger of playing hard, giving that big effort, playing tenacious defense back to the program. We would all support him bringing that style back to Bud Walton Arena.
John Pelphry has made millions of dollars coaching because he knows something about basketball. Much more than us. Maybe Hawg Ball wouldn’t work anymore in NCAA basketball? Is that why we don’t give em 40 minutes of hell anymore? Why don’t we pressure? Why don’t we play hungry on defense? Why don’t we get those turnovers anymore?
I know Nolan put much more emphasis on scrappy players rather than typical tall shot blockers and rebounders – placing his bet on producing steals/turnovers rather than rebounds… And that was frustrating at times when we couldn’t get a rebound. But now we don’t get either.
Arkansas is never going to be an NBA factory. We are always going to be playing teams with more individual talent. We have to win by hustle. We have to win by effort. We have to press for 40 minutes. We have to take these other teams out of their NBA style and make them dread seeing “Arkansas Razorbacks” on their schedule.
Maybe it won’t work in today’s game? I don’t know. But I would like to see us try.
Maybe Long has talked to Anderson and he really wouldn’t touch us – I hope that’s not the case, because if so.. You think Notes would leave his tire iron in the car? (just kidding.. give me a little slack)
I have no idea about Long. He definitely seems to be more about running the Athletic Department as a business, where Frank truly loved the Hogs. I don’t picture Jeff getting into his Razorback Pajamas and kissing Mrs. Long goodnight. If we want/need another true Hog fan to run our program, it would have to be an Arkansan… Any ideas?
This deflation post has deflated my week. At least baseball has started.
Good comment, Hungry. Yeah…looking that up…of course I knew someone was winning the SEC West over the last 15 years. It’s just hard to take that EVERY OTHER TEAM in the SEC West has won the division outright since we won it.
Sorry we caused your week to start off on the wrong foot.
Hog baseball is 5-1!
This basketball team is pathetic our .500 ball coach should have been fired last year. He has no clue what is going on and is in way over his head. If Long doesn’t have the fortitude to fire him, then Long needs to be sent packing too. Time to clean house.
Very nice post – obviously it’s very true, and I appreciate you not calling for Pelphrey’s job..I’m sure it was tough
.
I think the program bottomed out last year, and things are looking up. I think conditioning has played a factor in the past few games, as it probably will the rest of the way. I can’t wait for the SEC tourney to really see how things shake out in the league. There seems to be more parity than ever – except for UK.
I have to wonder what could have been if all of Pelphrey’s recruits had stayed and we actually had some sort of depth and experience. Sure, Pel is accountable for those folks leaving, just as he is accountable for getting Fortson, Powell, Clarke, etc. We’ve got some upside folks. It has been deflating (great word in this case) the past 5 years, but I think we’re finally getting things turned around. The losses hurt, but 7 SEC wins is better than 2.
Next year will be interesting; I’m anxious to see Pelphrey’s recruits next year. I think he has to be given at least 2 more years by Long to gauge a turnaround. If a change were made now I’d be very concerned about our core guys leaving to play somewhere else and we’d be stuck again in rebuild mode.
I’m a broken record…patience grasshopper. Doesn’t mean we have to be happy about it, but maybe tolerant is the right word.
I know if John stays he will eventually win an SEC title, probably a National Title. But, for next year, I figure, 9 wins and a trip to the NIT is real incremental progress. It may take ten years to get that first SEC title, but you know John will get there, given enough time, and talent, good assistant coaching.
So based on his teaching. How much better is Michael Washington than he was two years ago?
How much better is Steph Welsh than he was two years ago?
Does Fortson do a better job of creating assists than creating turnovers or missing low percentage shots? Is he the kind of point guard you win with? He is fun to watch. How is his defense?
So based on his teaching ability how often do you recruit a player like Powell who comes out of High School with the skills needed?
Will Pelphrey ever be able to communicate an intelligible point to a fan?
If his assistants are so good why aren’t they beating a path out of here for promotions?
He is a great guy, good observer, good nose for talent, but so far a very poor teacher. We are never going to have the kind of talent needed to win without a great teacher/motivator. He has not shown it.
If next year is really “year three” for Pelphrey, I’d think a trip to the NCAA tourney has to be the deciding factor in whether he keeps coaching at the UofA, or not.
Year one: 14-15 (2-14 in SEC, not a down year for the West: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/conferences/standings?confId=23&year=2009)
Year two: currently 14-15 (7-7 in SEC, def a down year for the West: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/conferences/standings?confId=23&year=2010)
Year three needs to see the Hogs breaking the 20-win barrier again, competing for the West title and making the NCAA tournament. If that doesn’t happen, then I think the Pelphrey experiment will be over.
I tend to agree with this side of the argument.
I would agree with you except for the fact we are in a desparate rebuilding situation. Let’s play your scenario out….if Pelphrey gets canned year 3 there is a real possibility our sophmores and juniors would transfer or leave school early. That would kill our graduation rate problem, which would result in a decrease in scholarships. Also, recruiting strong players wouldn’t be possible, unless we hire Callipari to replace Pel…:-). The combination of those two things are real program killers.
Based on the above, I think once we graduate some Seniors over the next couple years then Pelphrey will REALLY be on the hot seat if he’s not winning 20 games a year and taking us to the big dance.
But in general, I disagree with the W-L comparison. Who cares if it is a ‘down’ year? (I don’t think it is but time will tell). 7 SEC wins is better than 2. The overall record is misleading since we probably would have won some games we lost if we had the whole team involved.
It’s just not an easy, black and white situation. Lots of grey here.
Soupdhog, in response to your reply to me… mostly, that was my point (just said better and/or maybe in a different reply)!
Unless the SEC West vastly improves, it will take 20+ wins, winning the West, and a strong performance in the conference tournament to make the NCAA’s next year (unless they expand to 96 teams)
With two 6 foot starting guards dominating the shots and minutes, no real big man with experience and a small forward having to play power forward, I’m thinking the odds of all that happening are pretty low.
Soupd…ha…you won’t hear me calling for the coach’s head. At least not yet…
I am firmly on the fence right now with Pelphrey. There are good arguments (including yours) that keep me from coming out guns blazing against him. However, in talking to some of the other RazorBloggers, I think mine may be the “minority opinion” at the moment.
I’m ok with you sitting on the fence… we are definitely in a holding pattern!
Who are you concerned about leaving?
Owasso, I’d be concerned about Fortson, Clarke, Powell, etc…just about everyone Pelphrey recruited.
Sorry, meant @Opinionated not Owasso…
Boy the radio guys are spinning fast and furious to quiet the discontent. We’ve looked so bad for the last two games they had to know it was coming. They were well prepared. It’s only going to get worse. There is no stoppin’ this train. Three more ugly losses and there won’t be enough smoke to hide this mess.
It’s a collapse. It’s embarrassing.
So, next year do we consider 9 SEC wins a successful year?
I think you hit the nail on the head that it has to be tough for him sharing the same position as Petrino and Van Horn. They are good leaders. They set high goals. They know fans expect big things from our Razorbacks. And the SEC isn’t down in either of those sports.
If the SEC wasn’t down in basketball – and more games were like UK and Vandy – this might not be such a hot topic – it would be over. I hope.
I am not trying to be Negative Ned here, but when something is wrong in my house, I don’t like waiting 2 more years and hope it gets better – especially when my opinion is what we have now is not working, and until Mike says No Thanks, I see a better immediate solution available.
I don’t see this year as a success.
Quite frankly… based upon wins and loses, I’d agree. But with all things, you have to understand your numbers… with this in mind, I’m not happy with them but I understand them. As long as I can explain them to the point that they are understandable, the issue is about correcting them. That’s the issue… it isn’t going to happen this year and it wasn’t going to happen even BEFORE the year started!
What Tipster describes in his post is poor coaching: poor conditioning, poor defense, poor hustle, poor offensive schemes. If Pelphrey hasn’t learned those things yet, he’s not gonna pick ‘em up next year or the next. Even if players lack blue-chip talent, they can still hustle and play fundamentally sound ball, which they are not doing. I see no reason to expect anything different in the future. If Pel gets better players he may win a few more games, but he’s unlikely to deliver any championships with the brand of coaching he’s bringing these days.
The issue of graduation is important and cannot be overlooked. Most fans don’t give a big rat’s ass about academics, but the NCAA does. So any coach will have to deal with that. It has an impact on the W/L record as well as the future of the program, a program poised on the precipice of disaster with regard to academics. If Pelphrey can graduate a few seniors instead of running them off as underclassmen, he can help the program in that way. He has not proven that he can coach at this level, and he has not flashed much potential.
Darrell Walker is a name I never hear mentioned as a possible Hogs coach. Is his rep tainted in some way? Has he taken his name off the table?
I have been a student of basketball for over 60 years.
If I watch Kansas, Duke, N.C. or almost any Div. I school in a major conference with a good
coach I can recognize the offense and see plays as they develop.
Not true with Pelphreys Hogs. There is no offense. Dribble, Dribble, Dribble pass then Dribble, Dribble, Dribble and launch a three to beat the shot clock.
Fortson will no pass to Clarke. Think there is a competition for ego points. Clarke does notknow how to use screens to get his shot. Too slow, stands in the corner while the other four guys all gather on the outside of the lane.
I, too like Pelphrey. Nice young man. Not Razorback capable.
We missed the boat when we did not hire Mike Anderson. I understand the reasons why but Broyles and his stiff neck attitude is what caused most of the problems. Get him out of there!!!!!!
You read my mind….
Swineherd & old bear –
I filled two legal pages of notes today with the issues I see with the on-the-floor performance of the Razorback bball team. Someone was coaching, or maybe the team was listening, and for a few games they played much smarter. The officials were bailing Fortson out when he was the one initiating contact. The guys were playing hard. Defensive pressure was good.
Then, it’s as if the team got full of themselves, stopped playing hard, and the officials made the decision to stop bailing out Fortson. They got the stupids (15 of the first 22 shots at LSU were threes) and forgot what they were doing to win games.
Against Vandy they were very much over-matched. Vandy’s size and strength were too much to overcome.
Forget the wins and losses. Forget the lack of size, strength and questionable conditioning. Look at the system for offense and defense that’s being put on the floor. Look at the quality of execution – plays, screens, cuts, passing. Look at the decision making from the point guard position. Compare that to what you see in the top programs in the country.
It takes well executed offensive and defensive strategies plus really good players to compete at the national level. Really good players are attracted by the quality of the coach and the opportunity to shine and win rings.
The question that needs to be answered is this: Are we seeing good coaching or not?
We can wait until next year and then wait until the year after. There’s always a reason to wait until next year. I get the feeling working our way out of the hole we are in is going to take quite a few “next years.”
Hogblogger: The answer to your question is obvious, and more or less rhetorical by the way you stated it: we are NOT seeing good coaching. I think everybody knows that, including the administration. But the administration probably feels Hog-tied (yes, that’s a pun) because of the convoluted circumstances. If they could dump Pel for somebody better, they would. Perhaps they can and will.
Again, you are right in saying it’s going to take a few more years to work out of this deficit (deflation). Knowing that, it’s probably best for fans not to tie ourselves in knots worrying about it. I’m sure the Powers That Be are every bit as distressed as the fans, or even moreso, and they will do whatever they can to bring top-tier basketball back to Arkansas.
I think that we’ve seen good coaching in spurts this year; particularly when we win games. We’ve also seen some poor coaching – or is it poor execution? I live out of state and can’t watch all the games, but I’ve listened to 2 games this year where someone hits a layup at the end of the game to win it. Was that poor coaching or did our kid just not execute – I’m asking as I have no way to judge.
One thing you don’t mention is how the coaching is executed on the floor. Is the real issue the talent level on the floor? I think that has something to do with it.
This seems to be a similar issue to the Hogs defense. I’ve been calling for Willy’s head since the end of the 2008 season. Folks have kept telling me its the quality of athletes, not the coaching. I disagree, but hope I’m proven wrong in 2010.
I agree that Pelphrey is not a top tier coach..yet. But he is not a horrible coach either. He seems to be doing fairly well with the kids he has at his disposal. We will be able to do a coach upgrade when our program is stable – it’s not there yet.
Coaching can’t make a kid hit open mid range jump shots (except a shooting coach). We’ve missed a lot of those the past 3 games. Maybe that’s what we need – to hire Dirk Nowitzki’s shooting coach…
Re: Soupd’s comments
I agree with you that firing Pelphrey probably wouldn’t make a positive situation in terms of recruiting and/or transferring players. Regardless of a coach leaving or getting fired, that’s just the reality of the situation — when coaches are gone, players leave. And yes, we desperately need to graduate some kids to keep our scholarships (which is a weird rule and might make one think that Kentucky will be screwed in a couple of years, or Memphis now).
But how long will the administration let attendance dwindle while the quality of play doesn’t increase? Two more years? Three? Mr. Long isn’t going to come out and say, “fans, please bear with us, we’re trying to graduate some seniors…give us a few years!” As you’ve seen, the fan base is already grumbling and this is Pelphrey’s “second season.”
We should all agree that seven wins is MUCH better than two. Awesome for us and for coaches that have incentive-based bonuses. Here’s what’s nawesome:
SEC WEST RPI rankings as of right now:
Ole Miss — 53
Miss St — 57
Alabama — 111
Auburn — 139
Arkansas — 143
LSU — 221
SEC EAST RPI rankings as of right now:
Kentucky — 4
Vanderbilt — 14
Tennessee — 15
Florida — 46
South Carolina — 82
Georgia — 88
Final SEC RPI Rankings for 2008-2009:
Tennessee — 25
LSU — 37
Florida — 54
South Carolina — 58
Miss St. — 63
Auburn — 64
Kentucky — 79
Ole Miss — 82
Vanderbilt — 95
Alabama — 108
Arkansas — 149
Georgia — 192
At least Arkansas and ‘Bama are consistent, right? My point is that while we have seven SEC wins, the quality of those wins aren’t fantastic. Sometimes a win is a win. But, sometimes, your record is just some numbers that let you know you should be winning more games than not.
Now, as you said, we probably would have won earlier games this season had the full team been active. And that’s the exact point that I would like to stress. We didn’t start rattling off wins until Fortson came back. One player, who, mind you, shoots at 36% from the floor and turns the ball over one time less a game than he dishes assists. His sheer will power and drive to win has done wonders for the team. That’s all well and good because as of now we sit with 5 more wins than we had last season.
What I’m afraid it proves, though, is the lack of Pelphrey being able to structure an offense to get two key players the ball consistently, to at least match the opponent’s rebounding, or to effectively institute a defense that doesn’t allow opponents to shoot lights out from 3 Pt range.
Coaches have to win with what’s on the floor. Do you think that Coach K, Bill Self or Jim Boeheim’s teams play that drastically different when one of their best players isn’t playing in the game? Sure their dynamic is changed some, but the system allows them to continue operating very well as a team. That’s what I’m not seeing with Pelphrey. It’s one thing to have a system in place and for the players just not making plays. It’s a completely different thing when there’s no semblance of a system being communicated or executed.
I know that this isn’t a black/white situation, but how long will we continue down a path of graduation rates and mediocrity on the floor before the fans check out for good? Again, I’m not saying fire Pelphrey. But unless something magical happens next year, I don’t think he’ll survive the off-season. And to that point, I DO think we could find a coach that could keep a majority of the recruits and current players in place.
Let’s hope the Hogs finish strong and can somehow pull out an NIT invite. I think that would be a nice way to end the season. Unfortunately, they’ll have to play extremely well for that to happen.
Great comments. Well said.
Great stats – if my math is right, when you average across all teams, it’s 81 this year vs 83 last year…so basically the same – and the year isn’t over yet. Did we think the SEC was down last year? Again, the point is we’re making progress incrementally. To expect a complete turnaround to an elite team in 2 years is unrealistic. To go from last in the West to 2nd in one year when the league is about the same as last year (81 to 83) is significant.
I think you have to look across the conference, not just divisions since a good number of our games are against the east. We had some good wins against the east this year.
I agree with your points in general, but look at two ‘great’ coaches, Williams and Barnes. They are dealing with mediocrity at best, and the Texas and NC fans have to be going crazy as they have some of the best athletes in the country. My point is that good coaches can have a difficult time in the W-L column too. Granted, their records are better than Arkansas but they can recruit better athletes and supposedly have better coaching. One could argue that they should finish in the top 5 every year by virtue of their coaching. But it’s more than that – it’s about players being able to execute the game plan which typically comes from talent and experience.
To answer your other question, I think we have to go down the path of graduation rates and stability for at least 2 more years so we get out of the danger zone. I think our football program will help here as well if we don’t have a mass exodus at the end of next year. Maybe we won’t have mediocrity in bball, maybe we will. We have to live through a few years of the Broyles mess before we can get to the upper tier of the SEC.
Just how I see it.
Soup, you’re two big arguments just don’t hold water.
Transfers: Kids want to win. You get them a good coach, improve their chance at winning, they ain’t goin’ nowhere. Not to mention they have already given up on Opie. We may have more leave by keeping him than by getting rid of him.
Scholarships: What’s the difference if we lose a scholarship? Pelphry hasn’t fielded a complete team in three years. He relys on football, golf, and tennis players to fill out his line up. A good coach will fill the spots he has with winnning players and draw quality walk-ons to boot.
All this talk of Texas and NC is beyond foolishness. You can’t compare Opie to any coach in the SEC much less top 20 coaches elsewhere.
Simple facts is simple facts. We screwed up by not hiring Self and then we compounded our problem by running off Altman and taking a shot in the dark with Opie. IT DIDN’T WORK. Time to stop the bleeding, cut our losses and move on. Everything else is just wasting time.
Speaking of not holding water….Golf, you’re living in an alternate reality. That’s not the case here.
Kids (and their parents – important point to realize) are drawn to and stay close to a coach. That’s what’s recruiting is all about. My assumption is that these kids are committed to Pelphrey – but that is speculation just like your thoughts that they are not committed. I haven’t read any report that leads me to think they have given up on Pel.
History has shown that kids tend to leave when coaches leave. Look it up.
Scholarships: I can’t believe you actually posted that these don’t matter. I don’t know what to say other than – EVERY scholarship is valuable. The fewer you have, the more concessions you have to make and puts you at a disadvantage to your opponent. You should consider retracting that statement.
You obviously missed my point about Texas and NC, or maybe I didn’t make it clear: the point is that some of the greatest coaches in basketball have seasons in which they struggle. It doesn’t mean that they are suddenly a bad coach – it could be that they need time to coach up their players or develop a system to fit those players. I brought up TX and NC since some would consider they are having ‘down’ years or aren’t living up to expectations. All this to say that 2 years may not be enough time to totally turn around the program doesn’t mean Pelphrey is a bad coach and should be thrown out.
You assume Self would come to Arkansas. Don’t know how you drew that conclusion but again, coaches won’t touch Arkansas with a 10 foot pole after our handling of coaches in the past. Long is changing this perception with his allegiance to Pel, which is good – this will go a long way in how prospective coaches view the program in the future.
I think you like Mike (and I do too) but there is no guarantee we could get any improvement over Pelphrey this offseason. And I believe that Mike thinks he is in a better situation than he would be moving to Arkansas.
Yeah, I understood your arguments the first time. Restating them doesn’t make them sound any better.
You obviously have a position to push. It is good to spin the blogs too. It won’t help much though. People will just be angrier sooner next year.
I understand letting Opie set a foundation. It turns out he is not even good enough to do that. Tough break, but there it is. He folded like a two dollar pup tent. He wants out. Do you blame him? Put the poor boy out of his misery.
There are legitimate points on both sides. And I usually tend to agree that the coach needs a certain amount of time to bring in his players, coach his team a certain way, etc. Also, I think it sets a horrible precedent to fire a coach only a few years (3) into their contract. It’s hard to bring in a decent coach with that recurring cycle.
However, what really gets me mad and makes me lean toward the “new direction” position is seeing the program towards the bottom of the conference when the rest of the conference is more concerned about when spring football is going to start than to care about bball. I can only think of a few schools (UK, Vandy, maybe UT, maybe FLA, MSU, maybe Ole Miss) that actually give a whoop about basketball. And that’s stretching it. Which means we realistically should be fighting against those schools, instead of getting our butts handed to us year in and year out by other bottom dwellers. In the SEC, football is king. And to continually lose to other schools that don’t have the facilities and support that Arkansas has is unbelievable. I’m not saying that it’s NCAA bid or fire the coach, but it’s staggering to see schools with less financial support, tradition, and motivation continue to end up with better records and NCAA bids. Something has to give.
It’s pretty simple. If you believe you have a coach that will produce, who has hit hard times, you want to stick with him. All of the rest is a big smoke screen. He can coach or he can’t. If he can’t, you are simply wasting his time, and ours. I am ready willing and able to admit I am wrong. I am only waiting on the least amount of evidence.
So based on his teaching. How much better is Michael Washington than he was two years ago?
How much better is Steph Welsh than he was two years ago?
Does Fortson do a better job of creating assists than creating turnovers or missing low percentage shots? Is he the kind of point guard you win with? He is fun to watch. How is his defense?
So how often do you recruit a player like Powell who comes out of High School with the skills needed?
Will Pelphrey ever be able to communicate an intelligible point to a fan?
If his assistants are so good why aren’t they beating a path out of here for promotions?
He is a great guy, good observer, good nose for talent, but so far a very poor teacher. We are never going to have the kind of talent needed to win without a great teacher/motivator. He has not shown it.
GREAT questions!
So based on his teaching. How much better is Michael Washington than he was two years ago?
>> Averaged almost a double-double last year. Not bad. This year, his injuries aren’t helping him. Still isn’t a post player. Still gets in foul trouble quite often.
How much better is Steph Welsh than he was two years ago?
>> Not much.
Does Fortson do a better job of creating assists than creating turnovers or missing low percentage shots? Is he the kind of point guard you win with? He is fun to watch. How is his defense?
>> 1.18 AST/TO ratio — worse than last year’s 1.34
>> FG% 36 — worse than last year’s 42%
>> Fun to watch when he makes good shot decisions and passes
>> Horrid defense
So how often do you recruit a player like Powell who comes out of High School with the skills needed?
>> Every year you try. More times than not they go to another school for whatever reason. Next year’s guards could steal minutes, though. And then, there’s the 2011 class that many are salivating for.
Will Pelphrey ever be able to communicate an intelligible point to a fan?
>> Not sure. Especially now that the media is starting to crack down on him.
If his assistants are so good why aren’t they beating a path out of here for promotions?
>> Again. Not sure.
This has been a very good discussion, with very knowledgable comments about the team and the play. But those of who watch the games and follow the commentary, we don’t really know what the thinking is within the administration, where it really counts.
Also we don’t know what might happen following this season. Some unhappy top-tier coach might slip a note under the door looking for a job.
It is truly disgusting that a program with a national championship and a national runner up and some of the best facilities and fan base in America can’t make the cut among the top 65 teams year in and year out. Something is truly rotten in Hogville.
I was thinking – March Madness is NOT NEAR exciting without the Hogs in it… Then this blog reminded me that the current High School Grads of 2010 – were 2 Years Old when Thurman made the shot. They were 3 when we somehow lost that game to UCLA. Since then – they have grown up watching EVERY OTHER TEAM in the West win the division – Except Us.
At least we can remember when…
Tipster – I told you that you ruined my week with this post..
HogBlogger, GolfHog, et al, are correct, IMO, when they lay the blame for the current mess on Broyles and White. They created a lot of pain and grief, bad karma, that will be visited upon their successors, Long and Pelphrey, and upon the players and fans. It will take some time to work through that, I’m afraid. Meanwhile, patience will be the watchword.
All of you had good, insightful things to say, and I appreciate your time and effort to explain your views. Thank you. This is my last comment on the matter.
Great discussion guys. I usually have a bit more to say, but it looks like everything was covered pretty well.
I guess you could say i’m a “fence rider” as well. I like CJP, but have coaching concerns at times.
I can see both sides of this argument very clearly, so I guess my reasoning for becoming that “fence rider” was created by the tug of war atmophere surronding CJP.
I’m too dad gum afaid too jump off the fence, because I can see venomus snakes hiding in the grass on both sides. What a mess!
Hey soupd, just thought of something you’ve mentioned a few times — the fact that we need to continue down this Road to Pel so that we can establish a foundation. In addition, some say that other coaches won’t touch the program with a ten-foot pole because of the way we treat coaches.
It’s easy to dismiss that because of our recent turmoil and shoddy management. But, I bring this up as a fairly valid counter-point: what coach expects to get an automatic four, or, five years? We’re in the college basketball business to win games, not give coaches four years of paychecks with no return on investment.
One of the first things a newly hired coach says when speaking to the media is, “we’re gonna play hard and win games.” No one ever comes in and says, “I hope to play .500 ball and have a job for at least 4 years.”
I’m still not calling for anyone’s head, but to say we don’t care about winning in lieu of trying to build a foundation for coaches to WANT to be at, well, that sounds silly.
What are your thoughts on this?
SG,
If you don’t mind, i’d like to interject something in correlation with your thoughts on other coaches not wanting to touch the UofA basketball program.
I’ll start by asking one simple question of my own:
Name another program in the history of NCAA basketball, that won a NC with a black head coach, fired him for calling out the A.D. on national television, then was sued for racism, dragging the entire university reputation through the mud?
To be perfectly honest with you, I’m not so sure we’re in the business of winning games as much as we’re in the business of temporary damage control.
That’s not an excuse for CJP’s coaching, just my thoughts on where this program currently stands.
It’s very easy to say we should be past that by now, since Stan Heath coached here 5 years past the Nolan era, and this is now CJP’s 3rd season, but the truth of the matter is, the administration responsible for helping create that ugly monster, hasn’t been gone very long at all.
Of course this is just my opinion, but I think a lot of people overlook that as being the biggest problem our basketball program faces today.
Like Cory Beck said on the Bo Mattingly Show the other day, “the pride isn’t there like it used to be when I would put on that uniform”, “That mean’t something to me”. “I had a glow about me”.
Our players are reflecting that on the court.
Nice write up, Gonz. Yeah, we had a mess there when Nolan left, eh? One would HOPE that eight years, and counting, is enough to change that perception of a troubled administration. Maybe it’s not. But Beck is right with his pride comment — the current team doesn’t play with a lot of pride.
Which brings up the simple notion that winning cures all.